Episode Summary:
In this episode, Sharon Lee talks with Katie Southworth about how she got into solar and landed her first job in solar. She also gives details about Southface, her role as an advocacy director, how they help design systems through consulting, and why it is important to invest in solutions on energy since the costs will continue skyrocketing.
Insights from this Episode:
- How Katie got into solar
- How she got her first job in solar
- Details on Southface
- How Southface helps in designing commercial solar systems and its advocacy efforts
- How Southface intervened specifically on Georgia Power’s Rate Case
- Takeaways from the Rate Case and outlook for solar
- How the renewables scene will look like in the next few years
Quotes from the Show:
- “Many people had lawyers in their family, and they sort of knew what they wanted to do, in terms of practicing law, and I didn’t really, other than I knew I wanted to help people, maybe do something with environmental” —Katie Southworth in “The Sunnyside Podcast”
- “I wasn’t interested in working in a law firm, but I knew I wanted to work in the public interest” —Katie Southworth in “The Sunnyside Podcast”
- “In terms of how we (Southface) work with clients on their sustainable plans for sustainability, of course we work with cities to help them design their 100% clean energy plans. We also work with private sector clients like Chick-fil-A” —Katie Southworth in “The Sunnyside Podcast”
- “If you are living in a building for a long time, now is the time to invest in solutions that can help you control your costs, coz they are going up up up!” —Katie Southworth in “The Sunnyside Podcast”
Episode transcript:
Sharon Lee:
Welcome to the Sunnyside, the podcast that makes solar energy relatable, accessible, and attainable. Join us as we journey behind the scenes with women taking amazing strides in all parts of the solar industry. I’m your host Sharon Lee, and thank you for joining us today.
Welcome to another episode of the Sunnyside. In fact, this is our first episode in 2023, so we are excited to get the year started off right. And I think everybody’s going to be very excited about the guest that I have today. But before we get to her, let’s dive into Sharon’s Corner. What have I been up to since our last episode?
And, well, I should say happy New Year, except for the fact that we are pre-recording this because there’s been some exciting stuff going on in the world of solar, and we wanted to be kind of hot off press with what’s going on. So let’s see. In the past, I just got bought from Naples, Florida with my little 12-year-old who had been on a football team with a tournament down there. They came in with fifth in the nation, which is pretty cool. So they somehow made it past their regionals. We didn’t think we were going to Florida. And then, okay, here we go. And they did great. So this is great.
And then speaking of football, my guest is also a Tennessee fan. And so we were going to talk about how great Tennessee did against Clemson, but we are recording this so we don’t know. So we are just going to wish some luck and hope that that worked out.
But anyway, like I mentioned before, since last episode, we had a landmark vote here in Georgia, and I am not talking about our Senate runoff, which is pretty good news in and of itself. But I’m talking about the rate case that happened with Georgia Power, [inaudible 00:01:54] rates and what the vote was on the public service commission and implications of that. So I’ve got a perfect segue into my next guest. She is, like I said, of a Vols hands. She is a little burst of the energy and always have a fun conversation. So I’m sure today will be no different. Welcome Katie Southworth with Southface. Happy, almost, New Year.
Katie Southworth:
Happy, almost, New Year, Sharon. Go Vols. They won. They did such a great job in the future against Clemson. And they just send announced some new recruits for next year already. So it’s going to be good 2023, too.
Sharon Lee:
That’s right. We’re just speaking positivity into the nation, to the universe. So it’s going to happen.
Katie Southworth:
Right. For the Vols and for solar.
Sharon Lee:
Yes. The future is bright, no question.
Well, all right. So let’s talk a little bit about solar. Let’s just dive right in. And I know the solar industry is fairly young here in Georgia, and I need to back up. Before we get into all of the rate case and all that stuff, let’s talk about you. I’m always curious. Did you fall into the solar industry or, I’m sorry, renewables industry, or did you intentionally seek that out as a career? Tell me a little bit about your background.
Katie Southworth:
So I don’t really know. I think that we found each other, right? I was going one way, and it was going another. And it just ended up being the path that I went on. I grew up in Oak Ridge, Tennessee, where Oak Ridge National Lab is located. It’s one of the largest research and development laboratories of the Department of Energy in the country. Of course, they do very exciting work, and have done from years and years, on building efficiency, solar panels, energy storage. So my parents worked there, and everybody in Oak Ridge, it’s a small town, pretty much works at the lab. So it’s ORNL, is the Oak Ridge National Lab. So I was around it, just think it’s just by osmosis became a part of me.
And then I went to Vanderbilt undergrad and did some work for a land trust for Tennessee, a land conservation. Got interested in conservation issues, always had been because I grew up in the east Tennessee, in the mountains, just being outside, enjoy the outdoors. So did some land conservation issues. And then in law school, I went to law school at University of Tennessee in Knoxville, after a brief in China where I saw a lot of pollution and that sharpened my interest in environmental issues and impact it has on human welfare. Then I went back to law school, and then took an energy and environmental law course from Professor Jamie Van Nostrand my second year of law school. And I don’t know how to explain it other than to say I had a bit of an epiphany where everything came together. And then all of a sudden, I was like, “Oh, I want to do this.”
Sharon Lee:
Right?
Katie Southworth:
Yeah.
Everybody else in law school, I felt like many of have had lawyers in their family, and they knew what they wanted to do in terms of practicing law. And I didn’t really, other than I knew I wanted to help people and maybe do something with environmental. I wasn’t really interested in working at a law firm. I knew I wanted to work in the public interest, but then once I took the energy law course, regulation course, with Jamie Van Nostrand, and then environmental law courses after that, I just knew. It was like, “I get this. I can understand this. I think I can do this.” It just made sense.
Sharon Lee:
And don’t I remember hearing that you say that you were just the crazy kid that would show up at the TVA coal ash hearings?
Katie Southworth:
Oh yeah.
Well, so actually, I was showing up at TVA before the coal ash. So in 2008, I want to say, Christmas 2008, there was a Kingston coal ash spill. At the time, it was one of the largest environmental disasters in the country, on land anyways in terms of… So a coal ash pond burst in Kingston, Tennessee is down the road from where I grew up. And some houses were knocked down and just terrible mess.
So of course, I was this very idealistic and energized law student. So I was like, “What can I do about this?” So yeah, I showed up at Southern Alliance for Clean Energy and interned with them. But before that, I had already been showing up at TVA’s integrated resource planning meetings, their board meetings back in the day. That nobody, at the time, showed up for this. It was like me and Steven Smith with SACE and a couple other people. It was before there was much interest in utility planning. So I know I’ve got some strange looks, but I was just interested in it. So I decided to show up, and it was just down the road from the law school and then the coal ash spill happened. And so I got involved. That was an activating moment where I said, “No, I’m going to actually do something about it.”
Sharon Lee:
And then you also worked on the low income efficiency program that was on the Bredesen team. So pre the West Tennessee solo farm, right?
Katie Southworth:
Yeah.
When I was in law school, I did some work or I had a fellowship with the Bipartisan Policy Center in Washington DC, which I was so fortunate to be a [inaudible 00:07:05] scholar there. I worked on cap and trade legislation. Remember that, when was the thing at the federal level? Hey, if you told me we weren’t going to get it, I would not have believed you in 08, 09.
Yeah. So I was working in DC there, and then started when the Recovery Act passed. After I graduated law school, did work on the low income weatherization program, technical assistance for DOE. Because that program brought quite a large bump in the Recovery Act, which is reminiscent of now, what we’re seeing with the federal money that’s coming in under the Inflation Reduction Act and infrastructure bill.
So then I decided, when I was in DC, I got a call from the state energy office director in Tennessee, who worked for Governor Bredesen, and said, “Look, we’ve got all this Recovery Act money coming. We need to hire someone in the office, and we need some help. Will you come?” And I was like, “I’m coming.” After the coal ash spill, as a matter of fact. So about a year before that, when the coal ash spill happened, I went to Southern Alliance for Clean Energy and said, “How can I volunteer?” And I went to the state energy office and I said, “I want a job. Give me a job when you get one. I want to work for you.”
And then once the Recovery Act passed, and they realized they needed to be staff up, they called me. So I guess I actually went after the solar industry, if you think about it. Because I was bothering anybody that would listen to give me a job, really. So that’s how I got the job with the Bredesen administration. And of course, Governor Bredesen is a pioneer, at the time. I ran Volunteer State Solar Initiative for him. And so that was a $62 million program. 31 of it went to, which this is 2010. It’s a bit more money, inflation. And there was a lot of money, still a lot of money. But 31 million of it for a large utilities scale solar farm in west Tennessee. And then the remainder went to University of Tennessee, where we did rooftop solar grants and the other value chain grants to manufacturers and companies working in the solar industry. But that west Tennessee solar farm was a huge project. People thought we were unreasonable.
Sharon Lee:
And that was only five megs, if I remember right. That wouldn’t even be considered utility scale, really, at this point. And for that to be that, wow, this is outlandish, is pretty crazy.
Katie Southworth:
Yeah.
I think at the time, so 2010, we got the grant from the feds to start the Volunteer State Solar Initiative. At the time, there was less than a megawatt of solar, probably less than half a meg, on the grid in Tennessee. And we’re talking about just game changing. So by the end of the four years that we’re running that program, we’d had something like 50 megawatts in Tennessee installed from zero to 50.
Look, that’s small potatoes nowadays, but there were five megawatts. And when it went online, it was the largest installation in the southeast. And it was the first of its kind. It was right off of the interstate next to a rest center, one that’s run by the state park. So it’s a demonstration site that also generates solar energy. And we structured it such that the revenue that was generated from the array will go back into expansion of the array. So it expanded, has expanded, to, at the time was up to 10 megawatts. I think that they’re doing it more now. So the earned revenue, buy more panels, build it out more.
It was nuts trying to figure out how to get that project done. I think for anybody that would’ve been a challenge much. But then add that you’re working with federal government money for state government, and then having to go through all the approvals and stuff. So it was fun. It was a lot of fun.
Sharon Lee:
But that didn’t stop you. So you kept on this train, still going with renewables, and there were still some other stops along the way before you got to Southface. You were worked on some FERC projects all over the country, right?
Katie Southworth:
Yeah.
So after doing the work with Governor Bredesen, when he left office, of course he started the Silicon Ranch Company that does large scale projects. And then I continued on this State of Tennessee. I worked for Governor Haslam. I actually worked under a Democrat and Republican. I promoted under a Republican administration. Tennessee’s pretty moderate. We were continuing to do good clean energy work. So I stuck around. And then I worked on our response to the Clean Power Plan, which is an Obama administration plan that came down. So I worked on our response to that, and then left the state after five and a bit years. And then started working for national environmental groups.
I did work with a sustainable FERC project, did FERC work. Did some state regulatory work, state utility docket stuff with Natural Resources Defense Council and others. So I did a lot, a little bit of everything for about six years after I left the state, just thrown into different types of advocacy opportunities at state level, local level, and federal level. Wherever they could plug me in. Or I think I was willing to travel. So I was sent out west a lot into the southeast too.
Sharon Lee:
Well, and now you still split your time between Atlanta and Nashville, right?
Katie Southworth:
Oh yeah.
Sharon Lee:
Yeah. So on that plan of moving around.
Katie Southworth:
Yeah.
And we’ve got an office, Southface has an office, satellite office, now in Sarasota on New College campus. And it’s not bad. I go down there when I can.
Sharon Lee:
Oh yeah. That’s a good to know, if we can get it, for sure. Tell us what Southface is, for anyone that has not heard. The total 101 on what Southface is.
Katie Southworth:
So we’re a nonprofit. We’re based, headquartered, in Atlanta. Been around over 40 years. Dedicated to sustainability in the built environment, which is a big, touches a lot of things. We have an advocacy program that I’m manager of. And then we have research, technical assistance, and education programs, do workforce development. We have grant programs that give grants to nonprofits that want to improve their energy use. And we have a design consulting team too.
So we work broadly in sustainability in the built environment. And then my role as advocacy program director is to help push policies at the state and federal, local, levels that help support the built environment of the future that we want to see, which means resilience, which means getting to net zero, carbon, and pushing renewables, but also efficiency. We look at things holistically. We’re not just a solar. We look at all the solutions.
Sharon Lee:
And you join them in 2021. So we both had this crazy past, changing jobs just post-COVID. And we know the story.
Katie Southworth:
Yeah, right. Yeah, it’s been fun.
I came to Southface because, well, I had worked with Southface when I was with the State of Tennessee. They did a project with us on building codes training, and they did such an amazing job train the trainer teaching building codes, inspectors, how to learn to update code and teach others how to inspect buildings. And that was my first interaction working with Southface, and was really impressed by it. And then oddly, I’ve been had this strange interest in learning more about building codes. So it’s percolating in the back of my mind, “I’d like to learn more about this.” So this is a nice opportunity for me.
Sharon Lee:
Well, and it’s all interconnected. You have your building code and all that information, and then all the different types of renewables. And you said, you look at it more of it’s a holistic approach. So then you help clients. You said that you don’t have to be members. You can be a member of Southface, but you can reach out for sustainable planning and group and bring a project, and they’ll take a look and see about your plans, right?
Katie Southworth:
Absolutely. So we don’t build things for our clients or members. Yes, yes. Please become a member. We have great-
Sharon Lee:
I didn’t want to discourage membership. That’s not my point.
Katie Southworth:
Oh yeah, no, no. Oh yeah, no. We have really great events. Summer, winter solstice, we just had. Sharon, you’ve probably been to a few of them. They’re a lot of fun, and you get a discount if you’re a member. So that’s nice. And a newsletter and things.
But in terms of how we work with clients on their sustainable plans for sustainability, of course, we’ve worked with cities to help them design their 100% clean energy plans. We’ve also worked with private sector clients, like Chick-fil-A, doing design consulting, where we help them develop their standards around the portfolio of buildings and operations and understanding energy costs, carbon impacts, those types of things. But we’ll help design, consulting, but we won’t build the system. We’re not actually out there… We’ll help clients identify solutions, and then it’s up to them to select contractors. And I think occasionally Southface will help with that more. But we are never on the rooftop putting in a solar panel. Yeah.
Sharon Lee:
But you have some case studies that you have done where you have helped some companies through doing their research and that sort of thing. We can put a link to some of those case studies, but if you have any specific examples that might help someone understand what all you do, feel free to share.
Katie Southworth:
Well, sure. I’ll share a link to our different program pages.
Sharon Lee:
Okay.
Katie Southworth:
We have a number of really good examples about our Good Use grant program on the website. So this is for nonprofit companies, who, up until recently, weren’t able to take advantage of certain tax credit. So we’ve set up a program called Good Use that allows nonprofits to apply to have us come in, evaluate their facilities, identify plans, and often in different stages, for reducing their energy costs. So for example, food banks across the US, we’ve worked with. So food banks. We worked with local theaters. Boys and Girls Club have been a huge partner there.
And so do an audit, helps them identify solutions, give it grants to help fund some of it, but then it’s up… They often chip in or get financing for additional measures, and so that allows them to save money to invest back in their bottom line. And it’s similar thinking or reasoning. So reason to do it for our private sector clients as well. Sustainability, operating your business sustainably doesn’t mean warm beer and keeping the office cold. It means maintaining productivity but just being more efficient, spending less to do the same.
Sharon Lee:
Right.
Katie Southworth:
Anyway.
Sharon Lee:
So that was going to be my next question. If I were a business owner, how would your programs apply to me? So probably, did you just answer that, or is there more that you might want to talk about, what you are doing in the built environment?
Katie Southworth:
Yeah.
Well, first of all, sign up to be a member. Our teams, our person, would like me to say that, I’m sure.
Sharon Lee:
Absolutely.
Katie Southworth:
Yeah. You can contact our design consulting team, and they’ll come out, talk to you about your needs, and come up with a plan. And they’re a really fun team to work with. Got a lot of younger engineers that are eager to get out there and try new things and to get their boots on. So they’ve worked with all kinds of clients, large, all the way up to small theaters and things that we’ve showed up at.
Sharon Lee:
Well, and with ESG goals and things like that being such a big part of business right now, working with a company, or an organization, like you all, where they can be measurable, you, they’re tied to something that’s a little bit more engineered rather than, say, “Okay. Well, we’re going to take a stab at these goals.” That seems like it makes a whole lot more sense to go that route.
Katie Southworth:
Yeah.
With what’s the new rules to the SEC for publicly traded companies, but also for private companies, too, that just are starting to evaluate, or set ESG goals, but also are considering risk of in their contribution to carbon emissions and the like. There’s a lot of work to be done. Yeah, we have a great team that’s happy to help.
Sharon Lee:
Okay, okay.
Well, and I always want you ask about mentorship. So there’s so many different ways that folks go about that. Some people just really want to lift up new hires or try to get them more plugged in to the industry. But you all have a more holistic program. Hey, do you want to talk a little bit about mentorship at Southface?
Katie Southworth:
Thanks, Sharon, for opportunity to share about that. We have an army of volunteers and interns. We have an internship application that can be submitted through the website. We also regularly work with grad students and fellows. Agnes Scott has given us the advocacy program, has supported a couple fellows with our program. They’ve been indispensable.
Our members often chip in and volunteer too. I have an accountant that’s currently a member, Barbara, who is Barbara Lee. She’s a retired accountant and a Southface member. And she just wanted to help out with the Inflation Reduction Act advocacy that we’re doing. And so we’re working with her to understand some of these tax rules and things. And so there are plenty of opportunities. You can volunteer. Become a member, volunteer. Apply to become an intern. If you have an opportunity to get a fellowship, or through your university for grad students, for example, that’s another way. So if you want to help join the team and chip in, we’ll find a way to bring you into the fold.
Sharon Lee:
Right, right. There’s no problem there. That’s for sure.
Well I really wanted to have you as my guest for the January episode because we knew that the Public Service Commission was going to be making their vote on the Rate Case and all that. But I guess if you could talk a little bit about the background, how this comes about, and how every three years this is studied and what exactly is that rate case? So you maybe start off and give us a little bit about what the Public Service Commission does and all that.
Katie Southworth:
Great.
Okay, so I’m going to plug, first, we have on our YouTube channel a six-part training series on utility planning in Georgia, if you care to learn more about the acronym soup that people talk about. It demystifies it. So I’ll plug our YouTube videos.
But I can give the quick and dirty. So every three years under Georgia statute, regulated utilities, that means investor-owned publicly traded stocks and bonds, just stocks, utilities have to come to the Public Service Commission. So that’s Georgia Power. It’s the only one that’s subject to the Public Service Commission. The rest of Georgia, they run themselves. They have to come into the commission, and they give a plan. It’s called an integrated resource plan, or IRP, all of which to [inaudible 00:21:46].
But the integrated resource plan, essentially, is what do you need to do over the next 10, 20 years to meet demand? And so over 35 states do this. Georgia’s not the only one that has a statute that requires it. But Georgia’s is every three years. Georgia Power comes in. They say, “We’re going to retire this coal. We’re going to build a natural gas. We’re going to build this solar. We’re going to use this amount of energy efficiency.” And it’s basically, stack the resources to meet the demand of the customers. So you forecast how much energy you’re going to sell, and then you have to figure out the least cost resources to meet the demand. That’s the long and short of it.
And it gets complicated real quick. But really, it’s what do you need to do to maintain the system and to continue to sell to your customers? Now, that happens every three years. That’s the IRP, integrated resource plan. So that decision happens January to July, set by statute. The commission will vote on this company’s plan. And so we got involved in that as an intervener. We suggested some improvements to the plans, have got a number of them. And there’s a fair amount of solar, utility scale solar in there. They’re 2.4 gigs.
But anyhow. That plan gets approved by the commission. So that’s what is Georgia Power going to do. And then after that, there’s a rate case. And that’s basically, how are you going to pay for it? What should customers pay for the company to be able to execute on this plan for the next three years? And so the rate case immediately follows the resource planning case. It’s, what are you going to do? Then the case is, how are you going to pay for it?
And so Southface’s role is as a full on intervener in that proceeding, which means that we do discovery. We bring in experts. We go through data requests. It’s a very involved process. But others do things. It’s also possible to send in public comments, send in letters. You can get involved if you’re interested in it. Give me a call. Happy to help anytime.
The rate case just got a decision two days ago on that one. And so our job is done right for that. No, we argued for a number of things, got a few things. I don’t know, I don’t what level of detail you want to hear about. But basically, the rate case is another plan for how rates are going to look like for the next three years. And they’re going up. So that’s the headline, really. I think the takeaway is Georgia Power’s retiring a lot at coal. They’re bringing on renewables. They’re not bringing a lot of rooftop solar on, unfortunately. But there’s an opportunity to do more because it’s a least cost resource. But costs are going up, like everything else, with inflation. And everyone in Georgia should, if you’re at Georgia Power customer, should probably brace yourself for higher blows. And start thinking about the solutions that you work on, Sharon.
Sharon Lee:
Right.
Katie Southworth:
Folks should start thinking about that now because, man, I’m going to stop. I’ll get off my soapbox, but I wanted just to share that, a couple days ago, as I was reflecting on all of this, acknowledging that the average residential customers bill could go up by 30 to 40% in the next two years. It’s a lot.
Sharon Lee:
It is a lot.
Katie Southworth:
I was looking at planning for the future. And how much am I in Georgia likely to spend, if I were a residential customer? And this is business audience, but it translates.
Sharon Lee:
Sure.
Katie Southworth:
Over the next 10, 20, 30 years on electricity. Before these rate hikes, I was looking at my average and I’m not going to say how much electricity I use. I use more than I should, but I’m wondering, and I’m floating around an idea. Anyways, I am lower than the average Georgia power residential customer, but I’m not much lower.
So over the next 20 years, I can be spending upwards of 80, $90,000 on energy bills, electricity alone.
Sharon Lee:
Oh wow.
Katie Southworth:
Just on average. And this is before some of these rate hikes. That’s a lot of money. 30 years I’m looking at, and this is a residential customer, 100+ before these rate hikes and the ones that are coming. And so if you’re taking the long view, and you plan to live in a building for a long time, or be in a building, now is the time to invest in measures and solutions that can help you control your costs because it’s going up, up, up.
Sharon Lee:
Well and I think that control is a great word. And moving back over to the commercial sector, if you are trying to hedge inflation, and you have a cost center, which is energy, and it’s only going up, how do you control that? Well, this is a way to control it by improving something like solar, where you’re not just at the mercy of where these rates are going. But I should say, so we do have some cumulative rate increase. So George Power had originally asked for a 12% rate increase over the next three years. And so they didn’t just give them a yes, let’s do this. Tell us about the stair step approach that they agreed to within the vote.
Katie Southworth:
I’m glad we’re to clarify. So in January one, so this is airing in January, so this has already happened, 2.8 increase on the average bill, 2.8%. And then in 2023, there’ll be an initial 4.5% increase. And then in 2025, another 4.5% increase. So originally there was going to be a jump where the bills would all of a sudden go up. And so the commission, and we actually brought in a commissioner from Colorado to testify on this. The idea that, well, economy’s uncertain, that the company should be ratcheting up, in addition to all this federal funding that’s coming. They shouldn’t be able to front load and do an immediate 12% increase. Because that would be unsustainable for a lot of families right now. But it’s still going up.
But we’re like frogs in boiling water. It’s going to go up a little bit. Then it’s going to go up a little bit, 4.5. Then it’s going to go up 4.5. And if you are even a moderate sized commercial customer, that’s a lot of money, potentially, for you. And I have to add that in February, March of 2023, there’s going to be another docket that’s going to result in another bill increase related to natural gas costs that are increasing. And then there’s going to be another increase in the next two years once the nuclear plants come online. I’m assuming, at this point, that they will. So once Mobile comes online.
So you’re looking at six, seven bill increases in the next two, three years. So now is the time to identify solutions, whether it’s solar, building efficiency, domain response, all the things. Bills are going up those. So this decision’s locked in, the 2.3, 4.5, 4.5. That’s over the next three years. There’s an increase, but there’s more coming.
Sharon Lee:
Right.
Well, and then there was a, why don’t you tell us a little bit about the RNR tariff that was done on the short term. Because that was part of the rate piece involved, is that, you and that sort of thing. So tell us a little bit about what that is, a good definition of it, and what the result of that is.
Katie Southworth:
So yeah, Southface advocated for the creation, this is a few years ago in a previous array case, the creation of a pilot program for net metered solar, rooftop customer-sided solar system. Got a 5,000 participant program. So 5,000 customers were able to participate in it. It was wildly popular. It provided for compensating at retail rate. So what you pay to the company as a retail rate electricity is what you would get. The company would pay you for fair value of the excess solar that you’re generating from your system.
So that was wildly popular. Georgia Power, of course, they’ve about rising costs, and they are looking at any option, in my opinion, they can to sell more power so they can make more revenue. They see this as a threat to their business model, unfortunately, when in fact rooftop solar can really help them deploy lease cost resources for customers.
Anyways, the program was really successful. In the rate case, there was months and months. It was very controversial. We were going back and forth arguing about the value of rooftop solar to the utility to the utility as a lease cost resource. And so what we ended up with was a split the baby approach. So for the 5,000 customers that were able to do this pilot program, they were getting paid in a very good rate, but for everybody else, they were getting paid at avoided costs just 2.60 cents a kilowatt hour, which is not the thing that, not good for many, especially residential. That’s not going to pencil out for a lot of folks.
So the commission approved, instead, avoided cost at 2.6% plus four cents. So there’s a bump up in compensation for rooftop, for customer-sided solar, net-metered solar, as a result of this rate case, which is better than it was for those customers who weren’t able to get into the pilot.
So it’s better than it was. That’s the news I would share with anybody looking at it. Like, “Hey, if you were looking at it before and it didn’t work, look at it again now because the numbers may look different for you. And just know that Southface and others are going to be advocating in the background to get it back up higher because it needs to go.” In the future, in my opinion, from a regulatory perspective, policy perspective, it’s not enough. From a person or a customer or a company that’s evaluating doing it, it may work for you now if it didn’t before.
Sharon Lee:
That’s right.
Because if you are looking at sizing a system, your intention is not to sell power back. You want to consume as much as you can. But then you might have a business that doesn’t work on Saturdays or Sunday or something like that. And inevitably they are going to have some excess generation. So yes, you’re right. Make that palatable versus where it was last month.
So now that might make things pencil out, on top of the inflation reduction act being passed. So there’s better incentives here on top of the fact that rates are efficiently going up, and we know how much. So you really can use the projections, look at this as a cost center, and see, truly, how you can control those costs. And I agree with you. I think that there’s a positive story to tell. Is there still more of a fight to be had, absolutely. But I still think that, in the end, the overall scope is positive.
So yeah. I was going to ask you if you could clarify as well, so the Public Service Commission, they regulate Georgia Power. So if you are a business in EMC territory somewhere across the state, can you expect any implications from this? Or what would you say to a business might be under that territory?
Katie Southworth:
Related to net metering, or just generally?
Sharon Lee:
Just in general. So we know that these types of, with the rate increases and with these tariffs and that sort of thing, we know that this is what’s happening for Georgia Power. But do you assume that there is some connection for EMCs as well?
Katie Southworth:
Well, I think that there’s, no, there’s connection certainly from out of the integrated resource plan. I mentioned a 2.4 gigs. There’s a large amount of utility scale solar that’s going to need to be built in this state. That may happen in EMC territory, I know, then be wheeled in. It’s possible there. We’re seeing some land in Georgia with the large scale utility solar. So if you’re out in some of those areas, land constraint. And to me, that says that we need to be looking more at rooftop and customer-sided systems, just because the land and connections on the transmission grid, we’re seeing a lot of that being constrained. And that impacts the entire state, right? When you’re trying to wheel solar from one part of the state up to another, this large scale, utility scale solar farm deal.
Because it’s a transmission constraints and land use constraints, we’ve had a big bump. Everybody knows we’re big on utility scale solar, but the customer-side at distributed solar doesn’t have a very high level of penetration at all in Georgia. And I think, to me, what I would say is this has revealed to me, there’s such significant potential and even more, there’s more reason to go after customer-side or to invest in customer-sided and rooftop solar. So there’s a case that could be made to EMCs with the investment tax credit.
Then there’s a couple other potential, like a 10% bump if you’re a disadvantaged community. There’s some other grants that are beyond just the 30% tax credit that a public power utility could definitely take advantage of that they can now really utilize. So I would say that’s there. But in terms of the rate case, the decision on R&R impacting others, I don’t think it will.
Sharon Lee:
Okay.
Katie Southworth:
But unless it incentivizes a legislator to come and to draft some legislation on R&R that might in fact statewide that I suppose that could happen.
Sharon Lee:
So is Southface getting involved in the EMC community in the coming years?
Katie Southworth:
Yeah, we’ve been evaluating it.
The funny thing about doing advocacy and public power, so I come from TVA territory. I’ve worked in public power, on public power, a fair amount. And there’s TVA in Northern Georgia. The thing about it, TVA, when you have a large federal entity that’s over a bunch of local EMCs. There’s one point of advocacy. But then in Georgia, to get change, you have to talk to 100 different groups. To a policy advocacy perspective, it’s a little bit harder. Or in terms of in a resource constrained world, we’re a nonprofit. We’re not-
Sharon Lee:
Right.
Katie Southworth:
… We’ve got to be strategic about how we use our funds. But there was great news yesterday that makes me encouraged to do more work in the TVA part of Northern Georgia. Michelle Moore was confirmed to the board of the Tennessee Valley Authority.
Sharon Lee:
Okay.
Katie Southworth:
Now, she worked with a nonprofit called Groundswell, and they do community solar projects. They’re a nonprofit. They help develop community solar projects, and then others build them. They’re similar cut. Not the same as South Face, but they’re similarly structured. So she’s on the board of TVA, and I expect there to be more opportunity in TVA territory for community solar, for rooftop solar, certainly for efficiency. So we may get more involved.
Sharon Lee:
Okay. Okay.
Well, so I need to shift gears a little bit because we’ve gotten way into the thick of solar policy and that sort of thing. So let me just ask you. When you’re not advocating for solar, what do you do for fun?
Katie Southworth:
I sing karaoke. I love to go see music. A bunch of my friends were in a Christmas play. So this is after Christmas, but today, as Christmas hasn’t happened yet-
Sharon Lee:
Right.
Katie Southworth:
… I went to a Christmas musical with friends last night. Got to sing along at the end.
Sharon Lee:
How fun!
Katie Southworth:
And I’m a huge karaoke fan. I love music. Of course, I go back and forth, Atlanta and Nashville. Nashville’s just the place to be for karaoke. Let me tell you. Sharon, you got to come.
Sharon Lee:
I would be your absolute biggest fan. So okay, so if I’m sitting in the audience, and you’re going to go out on stage, tell me your best, best song that’s in your repertoire.
Katie Southworth:
Don’t Stop Believing By Journey, I can crush. It is happens to be the number one most requested karaoke song-
Sharon Lee:
Really?
Katie Southworth:
… in the nation. That’s what I was told one time. Fact-check me, but it’s a great song. Everybody loves it. And if you were in the audience, I would be asking you to participate.
Sharon Lee:
Oh!
Katie Southworth:
Yeah, yeah.
Sharon Lee:
Oh. Well, I could most definitely bring you down. But I would also be your biggest fans.
Katie Southworth:
All that matters for karaoke, really, is enthusiasm. You don’t have to have talent so much.
Sharon Lee:
All right. Well, I got plenty of enthusiasm.
Katie Southworth:
Yeah.
Sharon Lee:
I do. All right.
Katie Southworth:
Yeah, that’s what counts.
Sharon Lee:
Count me in for sure. For sure.
Well, this has been an absolutely fantastic conversation. I can’t thank you enough for joining us right here in the middle of the holidays. I know that time has been a little bit crazy and trying to get this set up, but I’m really excited to, again, get this news hot off the press right after this vote and that sort of thing. So if people do want to reach out to you to find out more or find out more about Southface and that sort of thing, what is the best way for them to find you?
Katie Southworth:
Great. Oh great.
So our website is www.southface.org. And my email is Ksouthworth, K-S-O-U-T-H-W-O-R-T-H, @southface.org. It’s a tongue twister Southworth@southface.
Sharon Lee:
Right.
Katie Southworth:
But you can email me anytime or just check us out on the website. Get to me there.
Sharon Lee:
Okay. Well-
Katie Southworth:
Or come to an event.
Sharon Lee:
Or become a member.
Katie Southworth:
Oh, become a member. And then come to an event. And then volunteer. Participate.
Sharon Lee:
That’s right. Do it all.
Katie Southworth:
We’ll take it.
Sharon Lee:
I love it.
Well, thanks again for joining us. I will add the links below to the case studies that we talked about, and any of the information that you want to provide, so people can see some of that. And I would say happy holidays, but it’s January.
Katie Southworth:
Oh yeah. What a great holiday break we had, just had, lovely. Go Vols!
Sharon Lee:
Go Vols! Exactly. We’ll end on that note. All right. Thanks again for joining us, Katie.
Katie Southworth:
Thanks, Sharon. Bye-bye
Sharon Lee:
Bye.
Thanks for listening to the Sunnyside Podcast. If you like what you heard, please give us a five-star review. You can also all email questions, suggestions, and compliments to sharon@velosolar.com. The Sunnyside is produced by the Podcast Laundry Production Company and executive produced by Sharon Lee.
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Sharon Lee:
Sharon Lee taps over a decade of solar sales experience, having led the creation of a solar division for a leading manufacturing/construction firm, resulting in over 17 MW of solar in its portfolio as well as solar ultimately becoming its highest-grossing revenue vertical. Lee has been involved in the GA Solar Energy Association, serving on the board of directors as the marketing chair, organizing the annual conference, as well as vice-chair, and ultimately the first female chair of the organization in 2015. She is also a charter member of the Professional Women in Building chapter of the Greater Atlanta Homebuilders Association, a member of the Solar Energy Industries Association (SEIA), and Women in Solar Energy (WISE). Lee earned her B.S. degree in communications with double minors in marketing and psychology from Middle Tennessee State University, after spending three years at the University of Tennessee in the pre-health curriculum. Lee is the mom of two boys, ages 14 and 11, and a rabid college football fan. She and her husband, John, spend most of their free time at the baseball or football fields unless they can steal away for a quick round of golf.
Katie Southworth:
Katie Southworth is the Advocacy Program Director at Southface Institute. She is an innovative, results-driven professional with fifteen years of experience in planning, coordinating, and implementing clean energy and environmental policies, programs, and projects.
Stay Connected:
Katie Southworth
LinkedIn: Katie Southworth
Southface
Website: Southface
Membership: Southface Membership
Sharon Lee
LinkedIn: Sharon Lee
Facebook: Sharon Lee
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