Interview of Callie Murray

Thank you to this episode’s sponsor, OxygenXL.

Episode Summary:

In the latest episode of the InPowered Women’s Podcast, host Sharon Lee interviews Callie Murray. Callie Murray is a serial entrepreneur who has run Big Fake Wedding, been in consulting, and now writing a book! She currently runs a HR company, Same Page HR, with her business partner, Matt Tanner. In this episode, she shares her journey in HR, and what the company does from onboarding, payroll, employee issues, and offboarding, and who their ideal client is. With no HR background, Callie shares how she landed in this field through a connection with Matt Tanner, and her deep love for building businesses. While she looked at this venture from a business perspective, Matt knew of her business acumen and asked her to be his business partner. 

Starting as a wedding photographer, Callie branched out and started The Big Fake Wedding and its success. Callie highlights running the business and why she started the business to inspire brides and grooms, promote small businesses, and encourage healthy marriages. While she later sold the business in 2016 to a lovely couple who continued to do well with the business, she explains how burnout led to this decision.

Finally, Callie talks about writing her book, her love for historical fiction, and how it morphed into her journey which acted as a form of therapy. While they want to grow the company, Callie says they might sell it someday. 

Insights from this episode:

• Callie’s journey into the HR field with no background in HR after running Big Fake Wedding
• Pivoting from one business to another and setting clear career choices. Callie also highlights working with a founder (Jeff Shinabarger Plywood People)  and helping many small businesses as an incubator
• Lessons in businesses from running a successful business 
• Transferring lessons learned from Big Fake Wedding to a new venture with Matt Tanner where she is looking for a debt-free, no burnout, recurring revenue, and healthy business
• After experiencing burnout from her first business, Callie has goals and directions she wants this new venture to take
• Emphasis on running a healthy business and the journey to ensure that the business remains that way, avoiding burnout and staying debt-free
• Finding a sweet spot between running a business, consulting and family, Callie tells of her love for potluck
  
  

Quotes from the Show:

Resources Mentioned:

• Callie Murray
• Same Page HR

Episode Transcript:

[00:00:01.610] – Speaker 1

Welcome to the InPowered Women’s podcast, where we tell the stories of Unstoppable Female Leaders who Excel, Uplift, and Secure a clearer Path for Female Leaders in the Future. I’m your host, Sharon Lee. Welcome to the InPowered Women’s podcast. I am so excited for another episode. I am Sharon Lee, with Pinnacle strategic Advisors. And before we get to today’s guest, I really want to thank a sponsor of ours, which is OxygenXL. We all know that time is money. If your company is struggling to achieve its full profit potential due to slow or nonpaying clients, the time is now to consider a new approach. With OxygenXL on your side, you’ll experience a seamless, comprehensive approach to on-time payments and successful collections with professionals who understand your needs and respect your clients. Breathe life into your cash flow and reach out to OxygenXL today. And with that, I’d like to welcome my guest for today, Callie Murray. Hi, Callie. How are you? Good. Thanks, Sharon. It’s funny. We only recently met, but I feel like I have known you forever. So here we go. We’re going to have a great conversation, and I’m so excited about it.

I’m so excited about your amazing story. There’s a lot of moving parts in it. If I said for you to introduce yourself, I would call you serial entrepreneur. But let’s break it down in little Tell me what you do.

[00:01:31.780] – Speaker 2

Well, that’s what’s been fun, Sharon, is getting to know you and you don’t know my backstory. And so then it’s been funny to be like, Oh, interesting.

[00:01:38.010] – Speaker 1

I don’t know how to connect these dots. It’s such a great story. Anyway.

[00:01:43.010] – Speaker 2

I run an HR company, a fractional HR business. My business partner is a guy named Matt Tanner. And then our company, Same Page HR, handles HR for small businesses. So everything from onboarding, payroll, employee issues, offboarding, all that.

[00:01:58.310] – Speaker 1

It’s so funny because when you first told me that and I said, Okay, so what’s your HR background? And you said, I don’t have an HR background. I’m going, Of course, you have this HR business with no background. So what in the world is that all about?

[00:02:13.580] – Speaker 2

I mean, honestly, probably the last thing in the world I would have thought that I would be doing, but also I absolutely adore it. And this is where I think the serial entrepreneur comes in. I think I just have learned I love to build businesses, and this happens to be the business I’m getting to build right now, and fell into it through this connection with Matt. Matt was employee number three at King of Pops, the Popsicle Company in Atlanta. He was the operations guy and then the accidental HR guy, as it always happens, and then ended up loving HR. He got his degree in it. But anyway, he started Same Page right outside of COVID. And, as a consultant, he had to think through how does he grow it beyond his time. So I was thinking more just on the business. I wasn’t thinking about it from an HR standpoint, but I loved what he did because I very much could have used same page HR at previous business that I had. And so I just related from the client standpoint.

[00:03:06.100] – Speaker 1

So he knew you as a successful business person, therefore he knew that you would be a good fit. So before we get into your backstory of all of that, is that truly the case? You all already knew each other, and he knew you were a good business person, and so then therefore…

[00:03:19.180] – Speaker 2

Yeah, and I was doing some consulting stuff at that point. I think he hired me, actually, for a little bit of like, let’s talk through how can I grow this. So when we sat down, I was thinking, here, Matt, here’s how you grow this business. He actually put together a pitch deck for me of Callie, Come Be My Business Partner. It was funny. We looked at it the other day. It was just hilarious because he’s like, here’s what I think we can do. I loved the vision of it. Like I said, I loved the mission of the business. I liked the idea of having a partner. Previous business was just me in the ownership role. Then I also loved that I couldn’t do the work. It’s so easy in a small business to get sucked into doing the work. I was like, I’m not an HR generalist or HR business partner, so I can learn it from a high level, but I can’t get into running payroll or advising on HR issues. I knew I’d get to actually build the business.

[00:04:06.590] – Speaker 1

Oh, that’s such a small business trap right there where you’re working in the business constantly and never working on the business. If your role is truly to be that visionary and trying to keep one foot in front of the other, that’s so smart, but it’s just a fairytale. It doesn’t happen. There you go. But let’s back up a little bit and let’s talk about the business that he knew you as the business owner of, which is the worst way to state that. You know what I’m talking about.

[00:04:31.730] – Speaker 2

I know what I’m talking about. Okay, so the big fake wedding is different from HR as you can get, but my 20s was spent hosting fake weddings all over the country.

[00:04:41.030] – Speaker 1

All right. So I had no idea what a fake wedding was. So slow down I’m just going to find what I think wedding is.

[00:04:47.630] – Speaker 2

Out of college, I was doing wedding photography, my brother and I, and was trying to figure out how to get more business. At that time, Facebook was a big deal. We shoot a wedding, we put pictures on Facebook, we get another inquiry or two. Or you get to know the DJ or you hit it off with a bridesmaid. At some point, I’m sitting there thinking, should I pay for a blog ad? How do I market my business? Should I do a bridal fair? And I was like, I just need to shoot more weddings. That’s how I get more business. My husband at this point, goes to boot camp. So I’ve just got all this spare time on my hands. And I’m like, I’ll just plan a fake wedding, and I’ll photograph it and I’ll book some more jobs for myself. This was the idea. And it was 2008. I started pitching to different wedding vendors. Opera is a nightclub in Atlanta, but they have these beautiful weddings. So I pitched them. I had a wedding cake baker that made a cake, had a dress designer do a dress, a DJ, and we planned a fake wedding.

[00:05:43.200] – Speaker 2

And engaged couples came to watch. Those were the guests. We had a married couple renew their vows. That was not my goal. I was like, I want for at least 20 minutes here, all of these engaged couples to think about their marriage also. It was this emotional ceremony. And then we had a dance party reception, food, drinks, the whole thing. That was 2008. I was my first one. And then we built out this business and did it for most of my 20s. We got to where we were doing about 30 a year all over the country.

[00:06:09.640] – Speaker 1

That was what I was going to ask. Putting on a wedding. Now, you didn’t have bridezilla to deal with.

[00:06:15.280] – Speaker 2

Le me push back, though. We were putting on a wedding, but usually when you put on a wedding, you’re paying vendors to be there. At this point, we are asking vendors to pay us to be there because it’s marketing. You don’t have a Bridesilla, but you have got 20 vendors that it’s about them. I mean, they’re marketing clients. And then you’ve got 300 engaged people that it’s about them because they are thinking about their wedding. And then you throw them all in a room together and you just try and make everybody happy.

[00:06:39.810] – Speaker 1

Oh, my gosh. So it sounds really fun, but now we’re seeing how the sausage is being made.

[00:06:46.150] – Speaker 2

It was so fun in so many ways. And we had these pinch me moments. We’re having an event in Chelsea Piers in New York or the Space Needle in Seattle. You’ve got the Bachelorette is showing up at one. And we’re on the Today Show. It’s super It’s fun stuff. But then it would be unbelievably hard at times. It’s all these personalities to manage. It’s raining. I’m also figuring out business. I’m a 22-year-old figuring out what is payroll, all of that stuff.

[00:07:14.180] – Speaker 1

Oh, it’s How much staff did you have? I didn’t even think about that.

[00:07:17.520] – Speaker 2

We got up to where we had 10 full-time people. That’s where I would say to anyone, I promise you, you can do anything in business if fake weddings can actually provide living for multiple humans.

[00:07:28.590] – Speaker 1

I think there’s a t-shirt to be made that says that.

[00:07:32.460] – Speaker 2

Well, at the time, my best friend was an ICU nurse, and so we would talk about our work, and she would have these horrific stories of stuff she would see. I would always say, there are no emergencies in fake weddings because it would feel all of a sudden like There’s an emergency. There’s a fire to put out. This is hard. I can’t sleep. I would go, this is fake weddings. This should not be that one.

[00:07:52.510] – Speaker 1

Right. Well, a lot of people are like, Am I saving the world by what I’m doing? Yes, she is. But in ways, you’re bringing people together, I mean, there’s a case to be made. That is a noble thing to do. Crazy and fun and anxiety riddled, but still noble.

[00:08:09.600] – Speaker 2

And that’s where our mission in the business was. We wanted to inspire brides and grooms, promote small businesses and encourage healthy marriages. So we did have those noble things. But then you’re also trying to make payroll and figure all that out, too.

[00:08:25.400] – Speaker 1

Galivanting all over the country. And it’s one thing if you were in your backyard, but when you’re going the Space Needle or you’re going to some of these highly recognizable areas and you’re promoting it, you’re right, you got to pull it off. There’s no plan B.

[00:08:38.410] – Speaker 2

Exactly. We would come up with our systems, and this is our product. But ultimately, like you said, you’re doing it in a different event space with different personalities and rules and what is parking and what are the alcohol rules in Tennessee. Yeah, it was a wild decade.

[00:08:52.470] – Speaker 1

So you started in 2008, and then you sold it in what year?

[00:08:55.890] – Speaker 2

Sold it in 2016.

[00:08:57.380] – Speaker 1

Okay. And so what made you decide to sell?

[00:08:59.450] – Speaker 2

I mean, the honest answer is burnout. My 20s were building this business, but my husband was in the military, so we were also moving around and doing all that. And then we had three babies. I look back and I go like, I get that I was burned out, but from what? I remember telling my husband at some point, This is the math problem. Something has to go. It’s probably not the children. I think it’s this business. I don’t know. I had moments of wanting to burn it to the ground. It felt so silly because I’m getting, You’re on the Today show, and this is so fun. You almost get that praise And then the reality was, I’m scared to check my email today, or I’ve got this debt that I’ve got to figure out how to pay for. It’s almost like the praise and excitement almost made it harder in some ways. Honest answer was burnout. And I sold it to this lovely couple who kept the same team and kept the heartbeat of the business and did amazing things with it. It went on for years. Covid was really tough for it. So they still haven’t done events for years, but they are not letting go of the URL or the idea.

[00:09:59.540] – Speaker 2

So I’m curious to know if it will come back one day. But that was the big, fake wedding story. I thought that was going to be the end of entrepreneurship for me, honestly.

[00:10:07.250] – Speaker 1

Did you take time off to just go, I’m going to get my head right. I’m going to just be a mom for a minute, and that thing? Or did you say, Okay, I’m in a fork in a road. I have done this. This is behind me. Let’s go. Where was your head?

[00:10:19.490] – Speaker 2

Time off would have been awesome, but sold the business not for enough money to retire off of. You know what I mean? It was enough to be out of debt and feel good about it. Then my husband’s enlisted in the military, and we’ve got three kids, and I needed to work. I remember saying, I want to work for a founder. I want to work for a leader. I’m so grateful that I got the opportunity to do that. I worked for Jeff Shinabarger. He’s the founder of Plywood People, which is a nonprofit in Atlanta that supports other small businesses, almost like an incubator. I got to work directly with Jeff and then with hundreds of small business owners in those couple of years. I got to see that all of those things I experienced as a business owner not unique to me. This is light of small business.

[00:11:03.370] – Speaker 1

What was your role with him?

[00:11:04.730] – Speaker 2

Community manager is what it was called. It was the coolest, most fun thing. Small businesses would connect with plywood. I’d get to talk to them and see how we could serve them. In some ways, it was business development, but it was also counseling. It was a blast. It was a healing season for me, I think.

[00:11:19.920] – Speaker 1

How long were you there?

[00:11:20.990] – Speaker 2

I was there for two years in that capacity, and then I did a couple of years of consulting-ish work on my own.

[00:11:27.890] – Speaker 1

You and Matt, you all connected in that time frame?

[00:11:31.820] – Speaker 2

Actually through Plywood people. He was an advisor with Plywood, and so I got to meet with him, and then we kept in touch. Then when I was doing consulting stuff on my own, that’s when we reconnected. Then I’ve now been with Same Page for three years.

[00:11:45.110] – Speaker 1

All right. I think we have finally gotten caught up. It’s such a crazy story. I love how point A doesn’t necessarily go to point B. So therefore, you’re my people. So getting back into your current business, tell me a little bit about where you see the visions. You’ve been at this for a few years now. And if I know your personality, you aren’t going to want to stagnate. You’ve got ideas. So where will you go with this?

[00:12:07.110] – Speaker 2

Matt had not been a founder on his own. He was so involved with King of Pops. He was very closely involved to the founding story, but this was his first business he owned. I went in into it with this like, I want to redeem entrepreneurship for myself. I don’t want to just do it till I burn out. How can I do this in a healthy, long way? So there were a couple of things I took from Big Fake Wedding, and that Matt, I think, over his career path, took into the business. We wanted to be financially wise and healthy. We wanted to be debt free. I think debt was such a stressful thing for me in the Big Fake Wedding. We wanted, like I said, not burn out. How can we enjoy what we’re doing each day? Even things like having recurring revenue is a game changer. To be debt free, I had to have other jobs for a little while. I kept some consulting work. He had some clients of his own up until, honestly, maybe just the last six months. We laughed and said, Those were our investors. The big goal is we want to have a healthy business and to be healthy business owners.

[00:13:05.390] – Speaker 2

I mean, we want to grow it. If you’re not growing, you’re dying, is the thought. We’ve got maybe 53 clients now that we get to manage their HR for them.

[00:13:13.240] – Speaker 1

They’re all over the country as well. This isn’t right here in the Southeast or just Georgia-based, right?

[00:13:18.080] – Speaker 2

Correct. They’re all over the country, and our team is all over the country. We do our work remotely. I think the team is super motivating to me. We’ve got about 22 HR generalists. Most of them are part-time, and most of them have some reason they want to be part-time, whether it’s family or something entrepreneurial they’re doing. Our very first people partner we got to bring on was another military spouse. That was special to me because she got to have this job while her husband was all over the place. I think we want to sell the business one day. I don’t know if that’s in a couple of years or decades, but right now, let’s just grow this in a good, healthy way. We have a girl named Sam that runs our day-to-day who is the dream boat, and that’s also been a big difference, I think, from Big Fake Wedding. I a great team at Big Fake Wedding. Sam is unbelievable, and she just knows HR, she knows her clients. That’s been great.

[00:14:06.870] – Speaker 1

Okay, so speaking of clients, what is your ideal client? Who are you looking for to help out there?

[00:14:12.770] – Speaker 2

They are all over the map, literally. California, Detroit, wherever. And figuratively, we’ve got Super Gen Z marketing agency and third-generation real estate firm. But the thread that binds everybody is employee size. They are under 100 employees. Most are probably in the 20-60 employee range. Oftentimes, they have never had an HR person. It’s been the founder or the head of operations, the executive assistant, air quote, the HR. They come to us either because they’re overwhelmed or they’ve got a big issue that they are in over their heads with. We get to come in and build and lead their HR. We’re super in the weeds. It’s a lot of the minutiae of figuring out spreadsheets and HR systems and all that.

[00:14:55.870] – Speaker 1

Smart girl to not get in the middle of all that. I would I’d much rather be looking at the vision of the company than HR and spreadsheets and payroll.

[00:15:04.910] – Speaker 2

Well, I’ve had to pull Matt out, too, because at the beginning, it’d be so easy to be like, Okay, Matt, you can take that client on, or you can go fix that, or whatever. From the beginning, and this is where Sam has been great. Even now, Sam is having to not get super involved. It’s like, now we got to recruit well and onboard well and trust the team. I mean, that is forever a hard thing. I almost have it the easiest because I can say, I can get up, I’m not in HR.

[00:15:29.210] – Speaker 1

Oh, my gosh. Well, It’s so funny because thinking about how we met, which was, again, very recently, but I just feel like it’s been forever. We were at a networking event at Iron Forums for Women. You were at the newbie table. You were going to introduce yourself, and you stood up, and I was at this other table, and I’m like, Oh, I’m Kelly Murray. I can’t remember exactly how you put it, but you had just finished your novel or something like that. I was so intrigued. I am foot tapping, waiting for a break so I could just come over, and I could not have met you enough. I was so excited. But then I figured that you wouldn’t be able to tell me anything about it, but I was going to ask until you did. So I was so amazed that you were willing to share some information about it. I think I started with what genre did you write about? So why don’t you tell your story?

[00:16:17.680] – Speaker 2

Well, I think the question at Iron Forums was like, What do you do for fun? Or something. And so I was like, Writing fiction, which is true. That’s been a thing for years I’ve done for fun, but now it’s becoming more of a project, a thing, of something to build. But historical fiction is the genre.

[00:16:33.250] – Speaker 1

And then, of course, I couldn’t get enough because that is my favorite. And so then I’m going, Okay, how am I going to get more details out of this girl? And I was so happy you were willing to share. So you told me about the setting, and you live in Norcross, Georgia, right now. Tell me a little bit about the setting and just the basic premise of the book.

[00:16:51.440] – Speaker 2

I’ve got my Book proposal right here. I had put the book into one sentence, which is so hard. So here’s where I’ve landed. You can tell me if I got it right or wrong. When a in small town, Georgia, opens her family’s once grand hotel to house Jewish refugee children, she must confront the choices her own parents made in order to finally feel worthy of love herself.

[00:17:11.330] – Speaker 1

I think that it was pre-World War II, so I don’t know that That’s where the actual time frame was in there, right?

[00:17:16.540] – Speaker 2

No, that’s true. Yeah.

[00:17:17.850] – Speaker 1

Well, I’m early going consulting right here. Okay, I’ll see my invoice later.

[00:17:24.060] – Speaker 2

It’s 1939, pre-World War II. The Anschluss has happened in Austria. It’s inspired by a true story of a American couple that went overseas and brought 50 children back from Austria on these unused visas, almost in a foster care situation. The goal was, We’re going to hold them here until your parents can come. I had heard about this story I was really fascinated by it in the depths of the Holocaust Encyclopedia online, read the lady’s memoir, but there wasn’t a ton about it. Got the idea to write fiction about it. All I could picture was the town that I lived in. I couldn’t picture Philadelphia, which is where the couple lived, but I could picture Norcross, which is a little small town where I live. I know the history here. We’ve got this historian that I’ve gotten to know. So the book became a mesh of this true event and then Norcross history. Then my story started to find its way into it.

[00:18:16.860] – Speaker 1

I love it. Tell me a little bit about that. That’s all a part of that character development. I want people to read the book, so I don’t want to get too much into exactly what all is going on, but there are some dynamic characters that you developed, and it’s fantastic. It’s interesting. I want to meet these people in your life.

[00:18:36.010] – Speaker 2

Yeah, it’s fun because you got to ask about who are they based on? When I started writing the book, my thought was, I want this to just be a personal project. My husband does ultra races, and he trains for them. He commits to them. It’s like our whole family commits to these races and what it involves. I thought, I want this to be my race. Can this be my Ironman? Can I commit to learning the craft and setting aside time daily to write and then have this finish line moment of like, Look, we did it. So that was the thought with the book. I did not intend for it to be this personal journey for me on a deep level. But as I get into writing it, you have these characters, and they have a problem, and then they have a want. What is something they think will fix the problem? But really, they’ve got a need. What is the thing that they actually need? I’ve got some personal stories of dynamics with my dad, or I had this crazy health journey, some of David’s deployment stuff. Very personal stories found their way into the book.

[00:19:33.620] – Speaker 2

It was actually so helpful for me. The ultimate form of verbal processing and therapy is to just write it all out in a completely safe way because they’re fictional. Some of the stuff I would change, I would be like, Why do I want that to be different? Or, I need that to be different?

[00:19:48.930] – Speaker 1

Because it’s therapy, but at the same time, you get the talent to pull it off. I’m speaking from experience because one of the other things that I accosted you with when we were at networking event is, which you let our Book Club read your book. So when you said, yes, I was blown away. And it was still in, or I guess still is, in manuscript form. But we had a way, follow your directions. We could get it into our kindles. So at least we were not reading word documents and all of that. It was so funny because I thought I was so excited. And then I’m loving the fact that you were so excited about it. I’ll never forget we’re emailing back and forth, and you said, I can’t believe that a book club is reading my book. I feel like I’ve arrived. Well, you don’t our book club. You may have just derailed. Anyway. But it was so great because, again, without giving away anything from the story, croissants came into the storyline. I remember texting out to my group, Who knows somewhere we can get some really good croissants? And so, Jen, Oh, yeah, I’ll pick some up and everything.

[00:20:46.370] – Speaker 1

And when I told you that we were bringing those, you were just so… Anyway. Yeah.

[00:20:50.840] – Speaker 2

So I spent two and a half years writing this manuscript, and I’d had a handful of people read it. I haven’t had an editor yet, and I haven’t had like, strangers read it. And so for your book club to read it, number one, and then to latch on to this little side story about croissants and bring them. It was the coolest experience. This is the goal of a writer. A writer wants to have readers. And it felt like the ultimate external processing of, now you get to read my words and tell me how they affected you, and what did you think of them, and what questions do you have? I mean, the absolute coolest experience.

[00:21:23.470] – Speaker 1

It was great because we were just kicking around ideas. And even before you got there, I was saying, She’s going to want honest feedback. Because I remember emailing you at one point saying, If this happens, I’m going to circle you. And you were loving that because that was the reaction that you wanted to get. But there was a question about one of the characters and why you did something. And as a writer, what do you do with that? Because you’ve got the opportunity to change it. It’s still in manuscript form. But just because one person wants that, you still have to be true to that character, right?

[00:21:56.520] – Speaker 2

Yes. Okay, a couple of thoughts. First is that I had A really helpful experience was I had an agent read the manuscript and give me very specific feedback of, I want this to be on the screen. It’s moving too fast. She gave me some stuff. I then had another agent read it, and she said, It’s moving too slow. I want less voices. It was absolute opposite feedback. That was actually helpful for me to go, Oh, my gosh, there is objective stuff to writing, and then there is very subjective stuff. I have to take feedback and say, What is objective? Meaning this is an inconsistency, or it’s grammatically incorrect, or whatever. And what is subjective? And then in that subjective world, my question to your Book Club friend was, Okay, you’re mad at that character. Were you mad at me as the author or were you mad at the character? Because if you ever get pulled out of a book to where you’re frustrated with the author, that’s not good. I don’t want when you’re reading for you to be thinking about me, the author. But if you’re mad at that character, fantastic. I want you to not like a character or to be frustrated or like, why didn’t you do that?

[00:22:57.510] – Speaker 2

That’s okay. I don’t know. This is all very fresh Like I said, right now it’s a Google Doc, and so feedback is fun because I can change it. But when it is printed, I need you to tell me it’s perfect and five stars.

[00:23:09.700] – Speaker 1

That’s all. To me, when it is out, it’s going to be hard back. You’re going to sign it. I’m going to be so proud to be your biggest fan. But you know, one thing that you had mentioned, and you’re going to have to remind me of the piece of it, but you had a different vision. You had a different character as the main character. Oh, and I don’t even think we said the name of this book, did we?

[00:23:27.870] – Speaker 2

Well, it’s currently called the Brunswick, but We’ll see.

[00:23:30.730] – Speaker 1

Cora is your main character currently. But talk about that journey, because that was an interesting story.

[00:23:36.180] – Speaker 2

Charlotte is the Austrian child. Cora is the 20-something in Norcross. There’s actually three point of views in the book. There’s Charlotte, there’s Cora, and then there’s Cora’s love interest, Thomas. I started with Charlotte, but then at some point, I think I was like, I mean, number one, it’s hard to tell a story of a Jewish child. Obviously, I can’t tell a story of anybody in 1939 fully, but I think I felt like I was more able to tell Cora’s story fuller. I remember somebody saying, Start writing. The first draft is you telling the story to yourself. Get it all out. The second draft is when you start telling it to somebody else. And so the first draft for sure, started very different than how it has all finished. Even now, I’m like, I don’t even know if it’s finished. Who knows? They call writing a craft. And I think it is because you’re just building and layering and it’s not just this black and white. Here’s how it goes.

[00:24:27.250] – Speaker 1

So, so true. And you have big news, right?

[00:24:31.020] – Speaker 2

I have spent, I mean, months. They call it the querying trenches, but it’s when you are querying agents. I decided to produce traditional publishing. You can self-publish or traditionally publish with a big publisher. I want to give that a shot in that Ironman idea of like, Let me just have the whole experience. I don’t know. You got to get an agent first, and then the agent will pitch you to the publishers. I signed with an agent, and he’s my dream agent, and it’s been so fun.

[00:24:56.420] – Speaker 1

What makes him your dream agent? What is it about his approach or whatever that really felt like, Okay, this is a really good fit for what I’m looking for?

[00:25:04.110] – Speaker 2

An agent is almost like a business partner. They make money if they sell you. It’s usually around 15 %. So you’re looking for someone that I need to trust that you are going to get it and get me and believe in me and all of this. But he’s also got to trust me. I get it that the publishing world is so slow. You can query, meaning you send out, Here’s my pitch, and they’ll say, You might hear from us within 12 weeks, or you might not. But you’re also I’m asking them to read a book that you wrote. It’s a big deal, and a lot of time on their end. But this guy, Dawn, he’s a quick responder. He is honest. He gets this vision for the book. That was so cool. I just felt like I was myself with him, and there was no posturing, which I appreciated. And some of the other agents I talked to, I felt like I was trying to be somebody different. He’s also real big into community, so he’s got a monthly call with his authors, which is super cool. So we all get to meet each other and learn from people.

[00:25:57.180] – Speaker 2

I just like him. He’s been in the industry forever, too. I just feel like I’m going to learn a ton with him.

[00:26:01.970] – Speaker 1

Oh, my gosh. I love it. The serial entrepreneur is a perfect fit, but it’s amazing to go from creating fake weddings to doing consulting to running HR to writing a novel. I mean, if I ask you what you do for fun, do you even have time for fun? Why do you define fun?

[00:26:19.850] – Speaker 2

I think our family loves to have people over. We love hosting potlucks, my favorite thing in the world. We’ve got a group of 20 families that come over once a month for a potluck, and we’ve got huge parties on fourth of July and Halloween. We love having people over.

[00:26:36.680] – Speaker 1

That’s awesome. That is so much fun. If people want to find you in whatever capacity they might want to have questions or whatever, where would you send them to reach out to you?

[00:26:46.630] – Speaker 2

I’ve started sending out this email. Part of it is the whole getting ready to publish a book process, having a platform, an email newsletter thing. I send out a weekly email called Project Person. It is owning my career I’m not a serial entrepreneur, project person, but I tell stories of other project people and things that they’ve done. You can sign up for that on calliemurray.Com or on my Instagram, callieamurray, M-U-R-R-R-A-Y. That’s that.

[00:27:12.850] – Speaker 1

Okay. I’ll put links to those in the description as well. I can’t thank you enough. Again, I love your story. I’ve loved talking to you. I love all of the fresh ideas. You’re just ready to take things on. That’s such a great spirit. I’m just so glad to have met you and gotten to know Thank you.

[00:27:30.760] – Speaker 2

Well, Sharon, and you’re just such a champion of people. I feel like you always have this special place in my heart. It’s my first Book Club champion, and so grateful for you.

[00:27:38.620] – Speaker 1

That’s right. When you’re ready for your fan club, count me in. I’ll be the President. I’ll get everybody riled up. We’re going to go. But no, Thank you for being a part of this and sharing your story. This has been great. I’m so thrilled that you were here.

[00:27:48.920] – Speaker 2

Thanks, Sharon

This episode was produced and managed by Podcast Laundry.